Protecting Athletes and Driving Change

00;00;07;24 - 00;00;52;15
Mark Conrad
Hello and welcome to the Sports Business Podcast with Prof. C, the podcast that explores the world of professional, collegiate, amateur, and Olympic sports. I'm Mark Conrad, or Prof. C, from Fordham University's Gabelli School of Business, where I serve as Professor of Law and Ethics and the Director of the Sports Business Initiative.
 
In recent years, reports of sexual assault of young athletes have exposed an ugly side of sports. Abuse by coaches, medical professionals, managers, and even other athletes have taken place in the United States and abroad.

00;00;52;17 - 00;01;38;28
Mark Conrad
Victims, both women and men, have been scarred because of the abuse, and one can question whether stakeholders in the sports industry and law enforcement have done enough to catch wrongdoers, punish them, and create policies to prevent this conduct from happening. The Army of Survivors is a global leader in advocating for survivors of sexual assault in sport. The nonprofit organization was founded in 2018 by more than 40 survivors of sexual abuse that was enabled by USA Gymnastics, Michigan State University, the U.S. Olympic Committee, and the FBI.

00;01;39;00 - 00;02;13;10
Mark Conrad
This unique history allows the Army of Survivors to bring awareness to the systemic problem of sexual abuse of athletes from the lens of athlete survivors. The goal is to end sexual violence in sports by ensuring all perpetrators, those who collude with perpetrators, and those who fail to act are held accountable.
 
 I am delighted to welcome two of the leaders of the organization who will discuss its history, mission and future.

00;02;13;13 - 00;02;46;02
Mark Conrad
The Army of Survivors Executive Director, Julie Ann Rivers Cochran and its president and founder, Grace French. Welcome to both of you to the Sports Business Podcast. 
Julie Ann is an international leader in the field of prevention and intervention of abuse in sport. Before joining the Army of Survivors, she worked for the National Center on Domestic Violence, Trauma, and Mental Health. As a survivor of childhood trauma,

00;02;46;05 - 00;03;21;24
Mark Conrad
Julie Ann is a fierce advocate whose experience with the impact of sexual assault and domestic violence has translated into a lifelong goal of listening to, then advocating for survivors while holding perpetrators and the system that supports them accountable. She is an academic advisory board member and faculty for the International Olympic Committee's Safeguarding Officer in Sports Program, advisory board member of the International Safeguards for Children in Sport.

00;03;21;26 - 00;04;02;15
Mark Conrad
She holds a master's degree in social work from Florida State University, a bachelor's degree in communication slash journalism from St. John Fisher College, and an executive certificate from the University of Notre Dame's Mendoza College of Business. 
 Organization President and Founder Grace French is a dancer, marketer, and strategist dedicated to transforming athletes' safety and survivors' rights. Grace's passion for dance continues throughout her work as a coach at multiple nationally recognized youth dance studios across Michigan.

00;04;02;18 - 00;04;31;21
Mark Conrad
As a survivor of the now disgraced Michigan State University doctor, she has committed her life to changing the culture of sport, consent, and institutional accountability, ensuring no one else endures sexual violence or abuse. Grace testified before Congress in support of athlete safety. She spoke at the UN General Assembly in 2019 to advocate for a worldwide survivor bill of rights.

00;04;31;23 - 00;05;01;05
Mark Conrad
She serves on the advisory board of SafeSport International and the International Safeguards for Children in Sport and has contributed as an expert advisor on global projects with FIFA, the International Olympic Committee, the World Players Association, and the Sport and Rights Alliance. Grace has played a key role in passing nine laws in Michigan to expand the statute of limitations and strengthen mandatory reporting requirements.

00;05;01;07 - 00;05;39;19
Mark Conrad
She also held past the Empowering Olympic, Paralympic and Amateur Athletes Act of 2020, which enhanced athlete protections across the United States. Her work has earned numerous accolades, including an Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the 2018 ESPYs. Grace earned her BBA from the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business. 
 
 Before we begin, in the interest of disclosure, one member of the Board of Directors of the Army of Survivors is a former student and someone who I remain in contact since her graduation.

00;05;39;22 - 00;05;58;22
Mark Conrad
She had mentioned the Army of Survivors to me, and that's what led me to learn more about the organization. With all this in mind, let's begin. Can you tell us the history of the Army of Survivors and what are the reasons why the organization was created? Start with Julie Anne.

00;05;58;25 - 00;06;23;05
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we always like to offer a content warning and advisory warning per se. And please note, we will be discussing abuse in sports throughout our time together. And that will include lived experiences. So those listening, if any of you are a survivor, whether you have chosen to disclose or decide never to. It's your choice and please know that it's not your fault.

00;06;23;06 - 00;06;27;05
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
You're worthy of healing and we believe you.

00;06;27;07 - 00;06;49;29
Grace French
Thanks, Julie Ann, and thank you, Mark, so much for having us. We are honored to be here and to be discussing this topic. The Army of Survivors was founded when around 500 survivors came forward about abuse that they had experienced by the now disgraced Michigan State University doctor and enabled by MSU, USA Gymnastics, the USOPC, and the FBI.

00;06;50;01 - 00;07;24;00
Grace French
A lot of us found that we love to turn our strength to power, and liked to do our healing through creating systems and cultural change to ensure that no one experienced what we did. So about 40 of us came together and created a shared vision for the future, which was a safer, more accountable sports environment. And that's how the Army of Survivors was born because we knew that we were not alone in our experience of abuse in sport.

00;07;24;03 - 00;07;50;05
Grace French
From the beginning, our organization has been survivor founded and survivor led, and we have an incredible team of advocates and athletes and gender-based violence experts and staff. Our mission is to bring awareness, accountability, and transparency to sexual violence against athletes at all levels. And through our three programmatic pillars, education, advocacy, and resources, we take a public health approach to addressing the root causes of abuse in sports communities.

00;07;50;07 - 00;08;18;26
Grace French
We know that abuse in sports is not rare, unfortunately. Globally, about 13 % of athletes experience sexual abuse tied to their participation. And in the US, where over half of the youth are enrolled in sports, this translates to millions of children each year experiencing abuse within sports. So the Army of Survivors exists to address this reality and ensure that sports can be a safe space and bring joy to all.

00;08;18;28 - 00;08;31;16
Mark Conrad
And the purpose of your organization is to end sexual violence in sports by providing resources, education, and advocacy. What are you doing to accomplish these goals?

00;08;31;19 - 00;08;57;02
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Thank you, Mark. And again, thank you so much for having us here today. I'll tell you, we're doing a lot. We're doing a lot to accomplish those goals. As Grace illustrated, our work is athlete survivor founded and survivor led. And we carry out our work through those three pillars you just mentioned. And we do this using a trauma-informed lens in partnership with athlete survivors and diverse entities in sports from all over the globe.

00;08;57;04 - 00;09;23;21
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
In terms of education, our signature educational opportunity is the Compassionate Coach course. And that's an eight week virtual training, live taught by an Olympic coach and crisis interventionist. And although we do know that abuse is systemic and not just perpetrated by coaches, they really do play a key role in creating safe sporting environments, healthy teen cultures, and in preventing abuse in sports.

00;09;23;26 - 00;09;50;10
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we felt it was really critical that we had a premier opportunity for coaches to help us create and transform the sports culture into one that is athlete centered and really focuses on athlete well-being. In our advocacy pillar, we champion trauma-informed legislation and policy. We do that through elevating survivor voices, and we partner with institutions to create safer sporting environments for athletes.

00;09;50;13 - 00;10;16;22
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
We work, of course, with policymakers to create systemic change within the world of sports.
 
 And I'll share a little bit later about one legislative effort that we do have underway right now. But in addition to legislative advocacy, we also advocate for policies and practices with sports entities like sports governing bodies. One example is specific to our international policy involving a project we worked on with FIFA.

00;10;16;24 - 00;10;43;15
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we embarked on a six month initiative with them to look at how do we safely engage a diverse group of athletes worldwide to offer feedback and opinions about what they were hoping to do in creating an international safe sport entity. We knew that for safe sport entities to succeed athletes and athletes survivors with lived experiences in sport must be at the center of all planning of an entity like that, as well as the implementation,

00;10;44;14 - 00;11;10;04
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
excuse me, and evaluation. So we worked with other allied organizations to...how to really frame for a large mammoth sports governing body like FIFA to truly look at how do we do that? How do we create this ground up entity to ensure if it's a reporting entity, if it's an entity that provides healing and support for those that disclose abuse,

00;11;10;07 - 00;11;38;16
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
how are you ensuring that those people that it's actually created for are at the very center of its growth? So that's another way that we do advocate.
 
 Then through our other resource, our final one, our finer pillar, excuse me, is resources. And when we talk about resources, we're talking about resources specific to athlete experiences and they're designed with athlete input to ensure efficacy and the relevance to the sports community.

00;11;38;19 - 00;12;09;05
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we offer resources such as on topics on barriers for reporting abuse in sports or an athlete survivor mental health crisis safety plan.
 
 One thing that we found has become very popular in our community is the abuse in sports power and control wheel that we adapted from the Duluth Intervention Project model. And that resource focuses on power dynamics of abuse specific to sports and athletes.

00;12;09;08 - 00;12;18;01
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
That's just another example. I'm happy to give more detail about all of those. Actually, I'll stop there for now.

00;12;18;04 - 00;12;20;29
Mark Conrad
Thank you. Grace, do you want to add anything to that?

00;12;21;01 - 00;12;31;16
Grace French
I think Julie Ann did a great job of explaining some of our programs. Although, if you'd like me to explain or to expand on any of those, I'm happy to, Mark.

00;12;31;18 - 00;12;50;04
Mark Conrad
I do have one question. Are you also looking to coaching abuse generally? Not sexual abuse, but just abusive coaching? I shouldn't say just because that's a big problem as well and a traumatic problem. So are you expanding to that area too?

00;12;50;07 - 00;13;22;22
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Yeah, that's a great point. And we do realize and recognize that abuse in sports is not just specific to any one type of abuse. And sexual abuse is one sort of scratching the surface of all the various different ways that athletes are abused in sport emotionally, psychologically, financially even sometimes. So we see the whole ecosystem of abuse in sport, including all those various forms of abuse, not just sexual assault.

00;13;22;24 - 00;13;48;09
Mark Conrad
And do you think that one of the problems in the United States is that we have a very fragmented Olympic sports system where we don't have a national ministry of sport or the same kind of national organization? Do you think that that has hurt the system or hurt athletes or maybe a national system may not or may help athletes in this quest?

00;13;48;09 - 00;13;54;28
Mark Conrad
I mean, have you had any thoughts about the structure of the system as we have it in the United States?

00;13;55;01 - 00;14;45;25
Grace French
So I think what harms within the system that's so fragmented is that athletes don't have one specific reporting system that they can go to that they can deeply understand the policies and procedures for reporting abuse. And so I think that is harmful with the system as it is today. I do think that having a system that holds all the power can also be harmful because if there are people who have ill intentions or abuse the power that exists and then they have the power over all of the sports within the United States, that can also cause problems without checks and balances and without accountability and without those people deeply understanding how

00;14;45;25 - 00;15;08;26
Grace French
abuse in sport happens or the nuances of sport within gender-based violence. So there are harmful parts of this system and there are helpful parts of the system that I think, you know you just have to balance how you want to approach the solution to this problem. Julie Ann, what am I missing?

00;15;08;28 - 00;15;32;24
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Nothing. I think, you know, just that approach is just reestablishing that public health model and looking at all of the attitudes, knowledge, beliefs and behaviors that are tacitly supported in our culture to have power over and have power imbalances and relationships. And that plays out in the sports community day in and day out.

00;15;32;27 - 00;15;37;25
Mark Conrad
What kinds of information or services does the organization provide?

00;15;37;27 - 00;16;28;09
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
A lot. We offer training, technical assistance, and consultation to sports organizations from international federations to grassroots local sports teams. And our training and technical assistance engagements vary, and they're really based on the distinctive needs of the organization. They're player centered and guided by input that we gather in our listening sessions. In addition, we are currently the office in violence against women's national training and technical assistance provider. And that initiative allows us to expand our education outreach and training for OVW grantees and their subcontractors, ensuring that service providers, advocates, and sports organizations are equipped with trauma-informed strategies to support athletes with lived experiences of abuse.

00;16;28;09 - 00;16;59;05
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
And I bring that up because we don't want anyone thinking that we only work with sports entities, that there are so many advocates out there, sexual assault providers, child advocacy centers that are doing amazing work with survivors of sexual assault, but they may not have that piece about what it means to be an athlete and what are those unique coercive control tactics that someone abusing them in sport might be using.

00;16;59;07 - 00;17;50;16
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we are right now currently collecting feedback from those service providers around the country through listening sessions and round tables, and we'll have a national TTA plan and toolkit eventually prepared, which we hope to have released in early '26. Also, if given time, wanted to point out that one unique attribute of our services that is threaded throughout all of our programs is our trauma-informed approach to athlete safeguarding.
 
 And this includes the understanding of the pervasiveness and impact of trauma with the goal of mitigating its effects, including minimizing re-traumatization, supporting healing, resilience, and wellbeing, while also attending to the impact of trauma organizationally.

00;17;50;16 - 00;18;21;26
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So what does it look like for a sports body when there has been a disclosure of abuse? How does that impact, not just a course, the importance of the survivor and the whistleblower, but the entire entity? And as far as a trauma-informed approach and how we do our best to impress the importance of being trauma-informed is it's really grounded in an athlete's history, acknowledging the entire context of their experience.

00;18;21;28 - 00;18;49;23
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
And it starts from a place of assuming a person has experienced trauma and it shifts the conversation from, which I heard, very early on in doing this work some 25 plus years ago, is, What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you that you experienced this abuse? And now we're seeing that transformation to, What happened to you? So the blame isn't placed on the athlete for the abuse they experienced.

00;18;49;25 - 00;19;37;16
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So it's our belief at the Army of Survivors that in order to transform the culture where power over athletes is not prioritized and instead athletes and their wellbeing are being centered. So organizations have to commit to creating an environment where the entire eco-system centers athletes and is committed to being trauma informed, so this means not just those individuals working at a safe sport entity, for example, like we talked about earlier, but everybody from the top down at each sports organization.
 
 We need to make sure that they're committed to creating a trauma informed environment where fear of disclosing abuse, for fear of punishment either by survivors or whistleblowers isn't common place anymore as it

00;19;37;16 - 00;19;50;10
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
is now. And if this doesn't happen, athletes won't feel safe to share, and promoting safety and healing and building trust is a key element to working with athlete survivors of sexual abuse in sport.

00;19;50;13 - 00;20;03;21
Mark Conrad
We have read about the abuse of athletes in particular in women's gymnastics. Do you think that was just the tip of the iceberg, and do you think the issue has been under-reported and underestimated?

00;20;03;24 - 00;20;39;28
Grace French
Yes, I believe that what the public saw in gymnastics was only one highly visible case and it is not an isolated incident. Abuse in sports is consistently underreported.
 And like I mentioned earlier, the reality is that 13 % of athletes worldwide have reported experiencing sexual abuse in a sporting context. And athletes face unique barriers to reporting. There's power dynamics where coaches or other people of influence in sport control things like their scholarships, their playing time, and future career opportunities.

00;20;40;01 - 00;21;11;03
Grace French
Then there's the fact that so many young people, their entire identity is tied in being an athlete and the sport itself, so speaking up feels like they're risking everything, including the sport that they love and their future career opportunities. And beyond that, the sports culture itself often works against the disclosure and reporting. There's a tough it out mentality where mistreatment gets normalized or loyalty to a coach or team keeps kids quiet to protect the coach or the team.

00;21;11;05 - 00;21;33;25
Grace French
And athletes are taught to sacrifice their body for their sport and consistently push through pain. So even if an athlete does want to come forward, the reporting systems and the culture in place are keeping them from that. And specifically with reporting systems, they're often confusing or controlled by the organizations that failed to protect those athletes in the first place.

00;21;33;28 - 00;22;00;21
Grace French
So to answer your question, yeah, gymnastics was one just highly visible example, but it's far from the only one. Abuse in sports, we believe, has been deeply underestimated and without big systemic change, it will stay under-reported, and survivors will remain unsupported. So one of the incredible projects that we're working on at the Army of Survivors is we're working to get a better understanding of the prevalence within the United States.

00;22;00;27 - 00;22;15;01
Grace French
And our organization has a study in the works with UW Madison on the prevalence of sexual violence in sport at elite levels in the United States. So we're very excited to dive deeper into this specific question.

00;22;15;03 - 00;22;29;08
Mark Conrad
Have you advocated or would consider kind of a national reporting system, run by maybe a government organization that would be separate and distinct from the for a sports federations and governing bodies?

00;22;29;10 - 00;22;42;21
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
We haven't advocated for that specifically, but we have been advocating for is a transformation and reformation of the current sporting and reporting system.

00;22;42;23 - 00;23;09;03
Mark Conrad
Okay, we are speaking with Julie Anne Rivers-Cochran, Executive Director, and Grace French, the President of the Army of Survivors. So do you think that in the last couple of years the reporting and sanctioning of sexual abuse has improved or has been more aggressive? And if not, what else has to be done?

00;23;09;05 - 00;23;37;11
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Thank you, I think this is an incredibly important question to address. But before I do, I wanted to note that to truly prevent abuse in sports, we believe that national governing bodies, international federations, university athletics, grassroots, and professional sports teams, they all need to first admit that abuse is happening in their sport, no matter if athletes are coming forward to report and disclose or not.

00;23;37;13 - 00;24;01;17
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
If they're not, and we tell this to lots of sports governing bodies if we have the opportunity to speak with them. If they're not, it's likely because there's already a culture of fear within the sporting institution, preventing athletes and whistleblowers from sharing. Fear of not being believed, lots of the other situations that Grace talked about before. Fear of punishment, like being cut from the team or a competition.

00;24;01;20 - 00;24;33;07
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Fear of the stigma of abuse. That list really goes on and on.
 
 All to say that there is a systemic failure of sports institutions to prevent abuse from happening. So in regards to your question though, Mark, TAoS's Founders case in the subsequent sentencing and imprisonment of the perpetrator revealed that those that cause harm and abuse of athletes do not do so without the support of systems that also conceal the abuse.

00;24;33;09 - 00;24;57;28
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we refer to that concept as institutional betrayal. In the US, in the result, of our founders experienced the US Center for Safe Sport, we know was legislatively created in concert with the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017. And this was done to address abuse and misconduct within the Olympic and Paralympic movement.

00;24;58;00 - 00;25;24;22
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
The center itself, if you're not familiar with it, consists of three departments that work together to achieve their mission. And those departments are response and resolution, organizational development, and compliance education and outreach. So not just investigating the reports that come to them. And the amount of reports that they receive has increased dramatically year after year with limited staff and limited funding.

00;25;24;24 - 00;26;03;10
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So to really answer your question, reporting has improved in that a system was created where reports are taken and some athletes have found justice through that process.
 
 However, in 2022, we began to hear from athletes survivors of sexual abuse who have been retraumatized and experienced retraumatizing investigative practices with the center. So in order to do our due diligence at the MRA survivors, we conducted a series of interviews with a diverse group of athletes across several different sports, different genders, ages, levels of competition, that sort of thing,

00;26;03;16 - 00;26;33;12
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
regarding their experiences with reporting sexual assault with the center. And through these discussions with athletes, survivors, and witnesses of sexual abuse in sports, regarding how their cases were handled explicitly, it became clear that more reforms and guidance are needed to ensure accountability of individuals and institutions, also best practices in trauma-informed training and support, and more transparency within the center.

00;26;33;14 - 00;27;09;02
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So as a result of several brave survivors and whistleblowers sharing their stories with us, we created several recommendations on how governing bodies, organizations conducting independent investigations like US Center for Safe Sport, how they can better improve safety, promote wellness, and prevent sexual violence and harassment in the future. We also worked closely with lawmakers about our findings through our listening sessions, which basically culminated in the bipartisan introduction of the Safer Sports for Athletes Act in Congress last December.

00;27;09;04 - 00;27;47;27
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
This legislation addresses systemic failures and safeguarding, enhances investigative processes at the US Center for Safe Sport, provides survivor support, and it also allocates funding for abuse prevention.
 
 That Bill took us over two years of coalition building and we're really hoping to see that it will be introduced again now that we have a new administration in a bipartisan manner during this next session coming up. I will also note that TAoS has been working closely with the center through training and technical assistance to help their policies and practices become more athlete-centered and trauma-informed.

00;27;48;00 - 00;28;14;22
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
And as a result, thus far, they really have, I wouldn't say necessarily as a result of that, but just coming to us and asking for our support was really a display of institutional courage, which has been a shift that we've been able to see. And throughout our engagement together, we've seen that as well. But the reality is actual systems change takes long term efforts and the transformation at all levels of the center's ecosystem.

00;28;14;24 - 00;28;23;15
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
So we're gonna continue to do our best to amplify survivor voice and press on for more trauma-informed system response within the center.

00;28;23;17 - 00;28;46;18
Mark Conrad
And the headlines have spoken and focused recently on girls and young women's abuse. But do you think that the abuse of boys and young men need to be addressed in greater detail? And does the army of survivors also focus on male athletes who've been sexually abused or coaching abuse generally?

00;28;46;20 - 00;29;09;25
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Absolutely, and I'm so glad you brought this up. The Army of Survivors, we do not focus on one gender, one race, one sport, or even one level of sport. What we do know is abuse in sports has the potential to impact everyone. We have had board members who identify as men who are sexually abused in sports, and currently, San Francisco 49ers

00;29;09;25 - 00;29;36;28
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Super Bowl defensive star Dwight Hicks serves on our board.
 
 And Dwight is a survivor of sexual abuse by a doctor that worked at the University of Michigan while he was a student playing football for U of M. I don't know if you're also aware or your listeners have already seen the new Netflix documentary, Surviving Ohio State, which shares the story of hundreds of male students, many of them hockey players and wrestlers. 

00;29;37;00 - 00;30;08;18
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Grace talked about prevalence.For all genders regarding 13%, having experienced sexual assault in sport as a child. Prevalence research also indicates that at least one in six men have experienced sexual assault or abuse, whether in childhood or as adults. Of note, one in three women have experienced physical and sexual assault in their lifetime. And we also know, as Grace pointed out earlier, that sexual abuse is extremely under-reported.

00;30;08;20 - 00;30;36;12
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
There are many barriers that prevent survivors from disclosing. And we also know that males who have experienced sexual assault are less likely to disclose than females. The question is, why is this, of course? And many factors do contribute to the myth that boys and men do not experience sexual abuse in sports. Socialization is definitely one factor. And men we know are taught at a young age to not identify as victims.

00;30;36;12 - 00;31;04;02
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
They're told to suppress emotions, avoid vulnerability and never even ask for help. Then you lay that extra layer of socialization that sports contributes. And we know that sports is foundational to many childhoods when we're being socialized. Especially in elite levels, success at the highest degree is tied to dedication during youth. And this places the sports world in a critical position,

00;31;04;02 - 00;31;29;17
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
we believe, as both a socializing mechanism and a potential site for abuse. So layering this context and power with many of the traditional coaching mantras of no pain, no gain, push through pain, and winning at all costs, and there's an undeniable setup for vulnerability and exploitation of all genders and identities.

00;31;29;19 - 00;31;41;03
Mark Conrad
And we're continuing our conversation with Julie Anne Rivers Cochran and Grace French of the Army of Survivors. So, what are the future plans for the Army of Survivors?

00;31;41;05 - 00;32;13;05
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Gosh, our future plans include our continuing to make significant progress advocating for Athlete Survivor Center policies and practices internationally on a global stage. In terms of our advocacy, for example, I was recently appointed vice chair of the independent panel for the FIFA Foundation's Safe Football Support Unit, which is a brand new entity.
 
 And that unit is led by an independent panel supported by special advisors and a survivors advisory group.

00;32;13;07 - 00;32;41;19
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
In the role of vice chair, I'll be consistently bringing a trauma informed athlete survivor centered point of view to the panel's work as the unit is being established and TAoS as a whole. Our team will be working with that survivors advisory group as it is created to ensure that their voice is paramount to the success of this entity and how it's put together, which it's really exciting to even just talk about that,

00;32;41;22 - 00;33;07;28
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
even though it's not even in the works other than just getting started, because it's the first time we're seeing a safe sport entity truly embed survivor voice at the very beginning of the development of its policies and practices. So that's one thing that we'll be working on in the future.
 
 Education-wise, we currently receive funding to adapt Compassionate Coach.

00;33;08;00 - 00;33;37;07
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
We have a waiting list of coaches that are interested in the course from countries all over the world. So we'll be adapting it to meet the linguistic and culturally specific needs of coaches and athletes from communities outside of the U.S.
 
 As I mentioned before, we develop programming based on listening to athlete survivors and one program we are seeking funding for is based on athletes sharing that they want a forum to connect with one another in a more formal way.

00;33;37;10 - 00;34;01;18
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
We're calling it the Athlete Survivor Peer Support Network and that will be a peer-led trauma-informed program that once fully funded will foster a global compassionate community united to offer encouragement promote healing, reduce isolation and stigma, and also provide practical support. That's some of what we see in the future.

00;34;01;21 - 00;34;13;02
Mark Conrad
And one question just came up in my mind, which we haven't talked about, disabled athletes and abuse. Have you been doing any work in that area?

00;34;13;04 - 00;34;59;25
Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran
Well, we were talking about prevalence before. We know that athletes with a disability are at a higher risk of being abused, anyone with a disability period. So although we have not had the honor and privilege to be working directly with some of the very inspiring organizations that do focus on para athletes and para Olympians, all of our work is based on looking at all individuals of sport and how they are through their identities, how they experience sport, how they have higher risk of being abused in sport, and how we can tailor all of our programming to do our best to meet the needs of all athletes.

00;34;59;28 - 00;35;37;17
Mark Conrad
And this last question is a little bit of a change of pace and it will be addressed to Grace. For those of you who do not know, my interest does not only cover sports, but also covers the performing arts as I studied music at an earlier stage in my life. With this in mind, Grace, the question for you, as somebody who studied dance, the issue of sexual abuse based on power relationship in that art has been discussed as part of the Me Too movement. Could you discuss what you think is problematic in the dance world and what can and should be done?

00;35;37;19 - 00;36;02;14
Grace French
Mark, I love this question. As somebody who's still in the dance world as a coach, I think there are so many issues that I see on the daily that really need to be addressed when it comes to this issue. I think dance is really unique because it does sit at the intersection of both sport and art. So like other athletes, dancers spend long hours training, rehearsing and performing in our bodies or our instruments.

00;36;02;16 - 00;36;35;05
Grace French
From a young age, we're taught to sacrifice comfort, rest, and even safety in the service of the art and the performance. And that includes the sacrifice of our bodies. And it creates a culture where we're used to pushing through pain and ignoring boundaries. And that can feel extremely normal. Another challenge specifically within dance is that we do not have a clear national governing body, at least in the US and in the way that many other sports do.

00;36;35;05 - 00;36;58;26
Grace French
So on one hand, that allows for a lot more creativity and freedom and which is a beautiful part of the art form. But it also means there isn't a consistent system for reporting abuse or reporting concerns within dance. So if a dancer experiences harm, it is often dependent on the individual studio, the company, or even the school to decide what happens next

00;36;58;26 - 00;37;27;09
Grace French
in terms of repercussions for the individual who has been reported. And too often there are no formal policies in place in those individual places. So dancers don't really know where to turn. But additionally, there are also dynamics that come from the artistic side of dance. So things like subjective scoring at competitions or casting for roles in productions.

00;37;27;12 - 00;38;03;15
Grace French
So favoritism and politics play a huge role in whether someone advances or gets additional opportunity, which gives teachers, directors, and choreographers a lot more power and incredible influence over the dancer's individual experience within the sport. And because dance is then so tied to identity, and many of us grew up saying, introducing ourselves first as I'm a dancer, the idea of losing access to that training, those opportunities, those roles, or even the career, if we have that aspiration, feels like losing a big part of who you are.

00;38;03;20 - 00;38;36;21
Grace French
So it makes the stakes of reporting even higher. so dance can be an incredibly powerful and empowering art form, but there's a lack of consistent protections and a culture of pushing through pain, which creates these huge vulnerabilities. So I think what can and should be done within the dance world is, building clearer safety pathways in school studios and companies while still honoring the artistry and individuality of the dance world and understanding the nuances that come with dance

00;38;36;23 - 00;39;20;27
Grace French
and how reporting and creating safe spaces need to be adjusted for the dance world because of those nuances. I think starting out a simple step is for people to do background checks on teachers who are coming through to understand deeply who has already been reported as abusive. There have been multiple articles already out of choreographers and teachers who have been abusive to dancers in the past. And that was, if I think about three years ago, I'd say, and I'm already seeing those choreographers and teachers getting rehired at studios and back in the dance world.

00;39;21;00 - 00;39;32;03
Grace French
And so I think there's a need for background checks for deep research on who you're bringing into your studio with your students and then for clearer reporting systems as well.

00;39;32;05 - 00;40;04;15
Mark Conrad
Fascinating and we probably could have a whole broadcast just on that topic. But unfortunately, we've come to the end of our time on behalf of Fordham University, the Gabelli School of Business and the Sports Business Initiative. I want to extend my thanks to Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran and Grace French from the Army of Survivors. You both gave important insights about a troubling but important and I hope that the continued work for the organization will end this scourge.

00;40;04;17 - 00;40;32;27
Mark Conrad
For more information, check out the organization's website The Army of Survivors, it's all one word, dot org, armyofsurvivors.org. I want to acknowledge my producer Victoria Ilano, for her great work in preparing and editing this episode. And finally, many thanks to all of you for listening for the Sports Business Podcast at Fordham's Gabelli School of Business, I'm Mark Conrad or Prof.

00;40;32;29 - 00;40;34;20
Mark Conrad
C, have a great day.